Free Women & Slaves....

Ok, finally kicking off the FW section of our glorious forums... This is something which I know I, personally have been having difficulty with for a while, and I'd love to know what the other Free Women out there think...

"One of the great fears of a slave girl is that she will be sold to a woman. Free women treat their female slaves with incredible hatred and cruelty. Why this is I do not know. Some say it is because they, the free women, envy the girls their collars and wish that they, too, were collared, and at the complete mercy of masters." Page 154 - Marauders of Gor

So... instead of stroking, coddling and petting slaves as if they were pets, I try to direct my roleplay in another direction. Mind you, in being "mean" to the kajirae, I also try to keep it fun, and creative. My aim isn't to make that person feel crappy OOC, but to give them something to roleplay with, long after I've moved on from the interaction.

I get great feedback from the slaves... My trouble is the other Free.

I know it's not impossible to be nice to a slave. You'll see Anya do it on more than one occasion. But when I've let out my inner Free Women in roleplay, I've been called on it so many times I've lost count. Been called a piece of Sleen Shit by another Free Woman who imagined herself a "slave advocate" of sorts, which is all well and good, but in my opinion, ungorean. I have even been confronted OOC by someone who seemed to think I was personally invested in tormenting the slaves.

Some days, I really just want to give up. Roleplaying a Free Woman isn't as simple as some might think.

So what's right? If a slave is displeasing, do we tutt and sigh and pat her head and warn her not to do it again, or do we punish them with rich, IC roleplay?

My position is obviously clear. What are your thoughts?

Well, as one who was nice and sweet until she had the opportunity to learn at Maileen's knee for a bit... I am done coddling slaves. FW rarely coddled them. I'm not saying never, I'm not saying they were never nice, they were not always super mean either, but they certainly weren't the mushy gushy FW you see all over SL Gor. I refuse to play it that way, they can kiss my ass if they don't like it : D Sage has only recently decided that not all slaves are a waste of her time and space and has decided a couple are interesting enough to almost like. She doesn't feel they are equals, she doesn't feel they are precious pets, and she won't hesitate to kick one out of the way if they are sitting in front of the damn gate blocking passage! I also make all city girls karta to me whether they've yet been told to or not. Once is all it takes, and they know from then on who I am and that I am owed that respect. There's at least one slave a day I have to teach this to also, isn't that information in the city slave packet they get? Maybe they just don't read that. Not my fault, they get forced to the ground at my feet. I enjoy my rp a lot better now that I've given myself permission to act more like a FW than the healer I am irl, and I'm getting better feedback from slaves and what I think is the most telling, I'm getting a lot more rp than I did before.

Since when did slaves have advocates? heh. Seriously those free that want to treat all kajiri as though they were precious fragile princesses are doing a huge disservice to the kajiri. Most slaves I've talked to, don't want that treatment. I recently had a girl submit to me, and one of her reasons to coming to me rather than a man.. well first I was the only person in Laura who noticed the girl had no collar or owner (she'd been serving the free there for 4 days... shame on you free! Pay attention to those girls, you might find some very interesting things!!), but another is that she has found FW more strict and less "caring of what a slave thinks/feels/wants." She's not looking to be coddled and treated like a princess. She wants to be treated like.. <gasp> a slave!

I just roll my eyes at the coddlers, pat them on their little confused heads and send them off to a disney sim to play

Most slaves don't want that treatment, I read in your posting... and from a Gorean point of view you are right. But why is it then that from several girls I hear that they are terrified by the way they were treated... Once I was told by one of the girls that her initial whipping by the slaver was feeling so bad and that she was humiliated such that she will not ever speak to him again. In the information about Laura I read that it is Gor, but always with respect to people, which for me means : "Talk to them in IM too check how they feel" I give new girls the initiation whipping too, and afterwards send them to the tub in the slave compound accompanied by a state slave (with healing salve) that has to take care of the wounds. When they see me later they are just thankful. Am I doing wrong ? Then tell me... I still am learning, but also feel that I originate from earth, and am a mix of both worlds.

Or is it that 30 - 40 % of the slaves should not be in Gor ?

Punishment ? OK, if they are wrong I do that... but there are ways other than the whip that will hurt more then a whip ever will do...

/me takes a deep breath.

I know you two wonderful ladies know just how much I struggle with this.

Generally, Aria's completely disinterested in slaves. They're beneath her notice unless they're a) irritating her or b) amusing her. If you somehow manage to catch her attention because you're particularly observant or particularly funny or particularly clever, she might give you a speculative eye, she might nod or even (!) vocalize approval, MIGHT, if you're lucky, eventually call you by name. For her own girls, when they are pleasing, she can be quite generous. She's even fairly lenient, usually willing to give any girl ONE chance to correct herself before she moves to punishment.

But if you are displeasing.... if you should fail to show her the proper respect, if you should bring her the wrong drink, if you should be rude or slow or just plain stupid, or even if you should just happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time... She can be frighteningly vicious. (Seriously, she scares me sometimes, she can be downright mean!!)

Aria's not hateful, but she is demanding. And sadly, if you've somehow managed to make it onto her good side, she gets even WORSE. <waits for Snowflake to show up and vouch for that>

Arthor, the point of a slave whipping is to make them feel their slavery. If you then heal away the reminder of their slavery, why bother whipping them at all? Send them somewhere quiet to lick their wounds, sure, I can see that. But don't negate all the work you just put into her.

Quote :

But why is it then that from several girls I hear that they are terrified by the way they were treated... Once I was told by one of the girls that her initial whipping by the slaver was feeling so bad and that she was humiliated such that she will not ever speak to him again.

Because these girls do not understand that Gorean slaves are not - not, not, NOT - BDSM slaves. You are not a pet. You are not beloved. Your submission is not a gift to be cherished. You are property. You are an animal. (You are, perhaps, LOVED, even though that is supposed to be RARE... and love slaves are SUPPOSED to be treated even more harshly by their owners, lest they mistakenly believe their Master is softened by his emotions! <growls>)

And I mean, c'mon, are you really terrified by anything that happens to your pixels?

Quote :

Or is it that 30 - 40 % of the slaves should not be in Gor ?

It is my opinion that 30-40% of the slaves should not be slaves, because they lack the humility of slavery. These are Free Women who want to be sluts. Well, that's fine, John Norman has a handy dandy little loophole for you, it's called secret slavery. Put on your robes, go into the square, point and mock the slaves, then go home and trade your veil for a collar and warm your Companion/Master's boot.

Those slaves who refuse to serve other/certain Free; those slaves who pretend to be called away/have to log when you ask for a serve; those slaves who would rather sit around kneeling than rp a chore; those slaves who run crying to their Masters when a Free punishes them... those are the slaves who ought not be slaves.

I am grateful we have very, very few of THOSE slaves in Laura.

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I hope I don't make people feel badly OOC. That's certainly never my intent. Whenever I'm being "bitchy Aria" I am almost ALWAYS talking to at least one person in IMs, asking, "Is that too much? Do I seem like a total bitch? Ohmigod I hope I don't scare this poor girl off, she seems really nice, I feel like such an ass, ack!!!"

Can I offer huge hugs to those girls who've let me try out my mean streak on them, and continue to talk to me in IMs? You do a lot to soothe my anxiety about this being taken OOC.

I was openly bitched at OOCly in chat by a slave simply for playing my role the other day

I was in a good mood, too, and didn't really see _how_ I was being rude rather than demanding of a slave. She then preceded to log off after refusing to answer my questions regarding her ownership because she "didn't have time to RP with rude FW" !! That just makes me LOL real hard because most slaves around that actually DO RP me with know I can be terribly nice upon occasion.

@Verity - SAY WUT??!?!!

Did you forget to give her a candy and call her "little one" first? That might have been your problem...

Ok first off.....

::steps up on her soap box::

Please please PLEASE do NOT put salve on whip marks from the common five tailed Goren slave whip. I'm a lifestyler and I can tell you that these type of whips don't open the skin. It says in the books they don't open the skin. They hurt like hell and at worst case they leave your back very red with *maybe* a few welts.

In Gor you have a snake whip. This is what most people in SL Gor wear at their hip and IT DOES open skin and perm mar and scar a slave. Using a snake whip CAN kill a slave. Using a Snake whip WILL scar a slave lower there value so much so that most slaves ((unless it's a thrall, who cares if they are scared) that they will be killed.

So in summery. The whip that *every* girl should be whipped with unless it is an OMG serious offense in the five tailed Goren slave whip that does NOT open the skin and does NOT scar and does NOT need salve.

::takes a deep breath, smiles and steps down off of her soap box delicately::

Ok, on to FW things. For me there is a HUGE difference between being firm and demanding in comparison to angry and displeased. I don't mind firm, hard, demanding but it's agonizing for Snow to receive harsh treatment because she was displeasing. Does that make any sense? Snow could be whipped by say, Anya because well, Anya felt like it but it wouldn't bother Snow so much. Now if Snow had truly displeased Anya to the point where she was enraged and whipped her, it would really bother her.

Since Laura is BTB (By The Books) we shouldn't have kind and cuddly Mistresses. My only reservation is girls who are new to Gor freaking out at their treatment but I've recently discovered that most of the slaves *love* it!! I agree on checking in on them here and there in IMs. I do it as FG a good amount, not wanting to think I'm some righteous bitch ooc and they all seem to be fine.

I personally don't enjoy the RPing with a cruel Mistress. Hard and even cold I understand, though it can be hard, but cruel just makes me feel like shit ooc. But with that said I do understand that IS a Goren Free Women. ::shrugs::

I'm glad we have people like Aria, Anya and now Sage to set a good example for how a true Goren Free Woman should act.

Sage to answer your question:

Under "1) New Slave Info: Start Here" I've written:

"- It is your responsibility to READ your packet. #1 - #4 should be read immediately, the rest when you get a chance. Some important points for you to remember are:
- All City girls are *required* to greet each of the High Council members by Obeisance the first time the greet them each day. Read this NC for more details: (( I then link this NC))

Note card linked "Obeisance to High Council"

Found in your Laura Slave packet labeled as "3) Lauran City Slave Rules" you will find a link in the bottom of that NC called "Lauran City Slave Rules". In "Lauran City Slave Rules" listed under .2 you will find this:

"2. All: When you greet your Owners in person for the first time in a day, you will (Obeisance) karta and kiss thier feet, then greet them verbally, and wait to be told to kneel (command of "rise").

City Slaves: Your owner is the city, this greeting will be provided to:

Administrator Markos Binder
First Sword Gavin Kleinfeld
Head Slaver Ari Blackthorne
Chief Scribe Jessy Mumfuzz
Chief Magistrate Drakar Sirnah
Chief Physician AcaciaSage Fairymeadow
Ambassador Kibitzie Rowlands

These are our community/caste leaders and as such, we must accord them the highest respect for leading and nurturing us as a city."

I have been contacted and told that several city slaves are not doing this. You MUST do this or risk punishment. This is a friendly but firm reminder to remember to do so.

“You may do obeisance, my dear,” said Kliomenes.
The girl rose to her feet and went to Kliomenes. She knelt before him, on the dais, and put her head down. Gently, softly, she licked and kissed his feet. She then rose again to her feet, backed away, and then, on the tiles, again knelt. She put the palms of her hands on the tiles, and lowered her head to the tiles. Then she straightened up, her back straight, assuming the position of the pleasure slave, though keeping her head bowed, deferentially."
Rouge of Gor - Page 299

The best Obeisance pose I think, often called karta, can be found at Soul Garden:

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and can be placed in your collar or used manually by double clicking it.

Please make Laura proud!

Thank you all!
Snowflake
First Girl"

It is repeated again in "3) Lauran City Slave Rules" you will find a link in the bottom of that NC called "Lauran City Slave Rules". In "Lauran City Slave Rules" listed under .2 you will find the fact that they are listed again.

Please keep in mind that though many may know this rule they might know no who you are!

I hope that helps!

I thought that was in there, and believe me I don't go whipping city girls for not doing it, at least not yet. I do remind each and every city slave that does not do it. If I don't know them, or haven't seen them before, I ask them if they have learned this, and depending on my mood either force them to the ground head at my feet, or haughtily instruct them that this is what is done and they should find out who the council members are because others might not be as lenient as me, and that next time I won't be lenient. So far it works, I talk to them in IM while I do it to reassure them I'm not a bitch ooc, and that I understand they didn't know yet but that they can find that info in their slave packet so they should read that asap

Snow, thnx for this very informative posting! I really picked up some things I needed to know from that.

Where do you get that whip you wrote about? Because I have a leather whip and a chain whip, both from Navar Harbinger, and they really are killing after a few blows. With the right whip, I do not see the use of 'after-care' anymore

Okay, I feel a great need to stand on my soapbox next to Snow. I love your postings and am in 100 percent agreement with them. The other day, there was a slave being whipped who felt it was unreasonable and wondered why a slave could basically be whipped for "no reason". Well....ummm....because the free CAN? Slaves are slaves. They have no rights. They are expendable. The girls need to realize this. They are not all pretty silks and perfume and cybering with whomever. You work, you learn, you do your damnedest to be pleasing to ALL free, even those wonderful, hard to please Free Women. And if you don't? You take what they give you.

In response to Arthor's comment:

Arthor wrote:

[b]But why is it then that from several girls I hear that they are terrified by the way they were treated...

What I believe to be the case here, are people in Gor who believe that in order to be Gorean you must be cruel. Admittedly there is plenty of cruelty in Gor, but I believe a whipping for any reason can be handed out perhaps with harshness, coldness, anger, whatever....; but it doesn't need to be cruel. Decide what cruel would mean to you, but we all probably have vastly different definition of the word. In my opinion, it is up to the individual to let the other know if things have gone well beyond their comfort zone. It would be silly to wait to be asked. If someone is being extraordinarily cruel and you are not dealing with it well, TELL THEM. Thankfully this is SL and you are in RL still on earth. There is no reason to be emotionally scarred in Gor or SL for that matter. And there are plenty of whining kajirae out there who will do their best to not play their role as it should be played.

So...that being said, I love a FW who plays a FW.. I love to be treatd like a SLAVE. Of course I love when my Master shows me his gentle side too, but I do not walk into the square expecting to be coddled. If I mess up...go ahead, yank me to the ground ... or pull my hair out.. *winks at Anya*. My job is to be pleasing to ALL free and Serve as if my life depends on it. HELLOOO...as if my life depends on it. So THANK YOU to you brave women in Laura who are willing to play their roles correctly. Remember the FW in.... ohh which book..... Assassins? Well, she cut off the nose and ears of the slave who dropped her mirror? Have you done that yet? No? I think you're all doing fine!

/me steps down off HER soapbox and smiles sheepishly to the gathered listners. I know I ramble, but thanks for taking the time to hear me. And again, kudos to all of you who strive to truly play their role!

My english is too bad to write some profounded thoughts here. But I agree with your posts. What I love in Laura is the authenticity and the great close-to-the-books roleplay. And ceana is right, as a slave on Gor, you can’t do anything than take what is given to you. When I get punished, and I think, it is not fair... who cares? There’s nothing I can do than take it. I read the books, I know what it means, to live on Gor. I know, that I’m nothing more than an animal. When I’m lucky, I have an owner who is kind to me – when I have bad luck, I have an owner who kills me, because the black wine had the wrong temperature.
A free woman can be mean and cruelful. As long as she is IC and pulls a clear borderline to OOC. Then it is not mean for me, then it is great roleplay! The same for free men.
I can tell a good example: when I lived in Midgaard, ther was a warrior who hated male slaves. When he saw me, he chased me away, sometimes he spit at me and called me a disgusting beast. But OOC in IM, he was a nice guy, we joked sometimes and he didn’t really dislike me. It was just great and authentic roleplay.
The same matter like free women and kajirae.

The only thing I really can do: try to please and earn a smile or a nice word.

(omg, I hope this is understandable )

Ceana, you are speaking of Claudia Tentia Hinrabia of Ar, who indeed cut off the ears and nose of her slave Melanie for dropping a mirror. Later, she was kidnapped and enslaved by the politically-aspiring slaver Cernus, and the slave Melanie was given a knife and ordered to remove Claudia's ears and nose as payment for her cruelty. I'd like to point out that Melanie refused. Yes, folks, that's right, despite being faced with the opportunity to deface her worst enemy in like kind, this meager little slave refused the order of a Free Man to do so. I find that an interesting and inspiring little side story.

</tangent>

....but you're right, you know. Compared to the Free Women in the books, we're all just a bunch of cuddly bunnies. xD