Your one change, round 2

We had some good ideas from this last time, and a chunk were implemented, so lets try it again!

If you could make one change to the city, what would it be?

I'd like to see some OOC responsibilities - like moderating - extended to (extra)ordinary citizens so the council can come out and get some stinkin' roleplay once in a while.

/me's pretty sure they used to have a good-looking blond Administrator in Laura, but for some reason whenever she passes his office all she hears is much weeping and tearing of hair...

Visable leaders

I would not *change* anything, I would just (and will do this as a leader, myself) just focus on those things we are already trying to improve (more citizen input, RP with our panther neighbors, less OOC and more RP communication).

BUMP

less petty squabbles and less grief for people wishing to roleplay.

The makeup of the city is good yet there is still a large lack of warriors in european times, that cannot be helped at present and perhaps a general monthly meeting for all the citizens to voice their opinions a closed council discussing every problem with limited members cannot judge sittuations fairly especialy when biased views come into play..

And as stated more visable leaders.. deffinetly

A minor thing, I love the new baths for the Free! Well done, and thank you. Although in the FW's side, could we possibly remove the third bath which can be clearly seen from the outside when the door swings open? It makes us nervous, and two pools are more than enough.

On a deeper note, I'd also really like to see an attitude change in the general population, toward those individuals who take considerable chunks of time out of their First Lives to log in, structure, plan, reassure, initiate, moderate and endure endless criticism and abuse on behalf of Laura.

No one is paying our High Council to invest the time and energy they do - Laura is free for all to enjoy - and I believe it's really just too easy to waltz on in, spend a week or two and then start throwing bold critique around. Or to look in from a distance, and offer advice without proper basis.

Of course, it speaks well of our city, that our citizens are so invested, emotionally, in it's success, but running an *anything*... be it in a First or Second Life, is difficult, time consuming and often thankless.

Thanks to our High Council, Laura still stands, some 6 months after it originally opened, and maintains an avatar dwell count of roughly 12,000. Not too shabby, and it certainly didn't happen because the High Council changed Laura's vision for every individual who wandered in thinking they knew better.

Members of the Council spend in excess of four hours every Monday, thrashing out the administration issues for the Sim. I don't really like to do much of *anything* for four hours at a time - even if I enjoy it - so I can only imagine how draining those meetings must be.

Then there is all the unseen, back office work which goes along with each High Council position, as every one of them is the Head of a Caste in Laura, charged with keeping things ticking along so that roleplay can actually happen. Someone has to write the Slave Info Packets (or arrange for them to be done). Classes for Slaves and Free have to be developed. There are Induction Speeches to write, the Laws have to be reviewed, notices have to be written and sent and forms need to be drafted, distributed, then processed. Relations with other Gorean role play Sims (Including our Panther neighbors) have to be developed and maintained. Someone has to run the market and deal with all of the Merchants and somebody has to oversee the residential Sim... It just goes on and on.

It seems rather petty then - to demand that on top of all of these things - they show up, shake everyone's hand In Character and make nice on a more regular basis, because that would make *us* feel a little more cossetted and confident. Most of the High Council are RP Moderators on top of everything else, and their "roleplay" often consists of wading through the inevitable questions sent about RP via IM, or the open calls of "Invalid" in open chat.

Given that no one's paying them, and no one's charging *us* a fee, it's rather generous of them to also give us a suggestion box, and a further few hours of their time every two weeks to meet us in an open, OOC forum to discuss our concerns as citizens, and hear our ideas for Laura's future.

There is no denying these people work HARD. And there's no way, they are ever going to please every citizen. How much more difficult must it be, then, when one or two players - who are NOT held in Laura by anything other than their own personal choice - strive to undermine things with ongoing rhetoric about how "not enough" is being done.

Keep bringing them your ideas... share your criticisms, respectfully. They have asked for them. But please remember, they owe you nothing.

If you feel, deeply enough, that you could do a much better job, then by all means, take yourself off, buy a Sim, set it up, and knock yourself out. Until then, try to work WITH the existing, dedicated High Council we have, to keep Laura open, and pleasant for everyone.



Oh, and PS: In case all that made you forget.. FW Baths!

Severus Koskinen wrote:

less petty squabbles and less grief for people wishing to roleplay.

The makeup of the city is good yet there is still a large lack of warriors in european times, that cannot be helped at present and perhaps a general monthly meeting for all the citizens to voice their opinions a closed council discussing every problem with limited members cannot judge sittuations fairly especialy when biased views come into play..

And as stated more visable leaders.. deffinetly

Maybe you haven't noticed but we have meetings every two weeks for citizens to come and attend and voice their issues and opinions.

Ice Bradley wrote:

Visable leaders

Let's see... On an almost daily basis I see Gavin, Ari, Elgin (just not weekends for him and lately he's even been in on friday nights), Orvelle is there all the time, myself of course, Jane is now on council and I see her in town to RP, and Markos when he can. Just what exactly are we if not the leaders of the city? Markos gets in when he can, his RL at this time is preventing as much time as he used to spend but with all due respect Ice, you weren't here when he was out and about in the city constantly putting in more hours than any of us to get it up and running. Most of the rest of us were, we saw that and know what his dedication level is.

I'm honestly confused what it is you want, you say you want visible leaders.. yet... here we all are in the city and RPing a large percentage of the time.

/me stands up and strikes her fist against her shoulder repeatedly in applause at Anya's words.

Visible leaders are wonderful - and I'm glad we have them.

If you'd like to see them more, feel free to jump in and relieve them of some of their OOC duties, guys.

Sage wrote:

Ice Bradley wrote:

Visable leaders

Let's see... On an almost daily basis I see Gavin, Ari, Elgin (just not weekends for him and lately he's even been in on friday nights), Orvelle is there all the time, myself of course, Jane is now on council and I see her in town to RP, and Markos when he can. Just what exactly are we if not the leaders of the city? Markos gets in when he can, his RL at this time is preventing as much time as he used to spend but with all due respect Ice, you weren't here when he was out and about in the city constantly putting in more hours than any of us to get it up and running. Most of the rest of us were, we saw that and know what his dedication level is.

I'm honestly confused what it is you want, you say you want visible leaders.. yet... here we all are in the city and RPing a large percentage of the time.

You need to remember Sage, we do have Euro's here that don't see anyone around during their time. Maybe that should be something the council needs to look at as in the evening euro time, the city is actually pretty dead.

Another thing I'd like to see is some control over thought insults. I have noticed this has been pretty rampant as of late.


~Chandra~

Chandra wrote:

Sage wrote:

Ice Bradley wrote:

Visable leaders

Let's see... On an almost daily basis I see Gavin, Ari, Elgin (just not weekends for him and lately he's even been in on friday nights), Orvelle is there all the time, myself of course, Jane is now on council and I see her in town to RP, and Markos when he can. Just what exactly are we if not the leaders of the city? Markos gets in when he can, his RL at this time is preventing as much time as he used to spend but with all due respect Ice, you weren't here when he was out and about in the city constantly putting in more hours than any of us to get it up and running. Most of the rest of us were, we saw that and know what his dedication level is.

I'm honestly confused what it is you want, you say you want visible leaders.. yet... here we all are in the city and RPing a large percentage of the time.

You need to remember Sage, we do have Euro's here that don't see anyone around during their time. Maybe that should be something the council needs to look at as in the evening euro time, the city is actually pretty dead.

Another thing I'd like to see is some control over thought insults. I have noticed this has been pretty rampant as of late.


~Chandra~

Yes I agree, we all know the Euro time is an issue. But do cities have one admin for US time and one for Euro? not that I'm aware of. I agree we need lots more going on for the Euro timeset, so again.. suggestions to help with that would be most welcome. Let us know what to do other than recruiting, which frankly I think everyone could help with not leave it all to the council But we are actively recruiting for all time frames, that hasn't ever stopped.

I agree completely on the thought insults. I think they show a huge lack of creativity and lack of character. If you wanna insult someone, come out and do it in chat openly and generate some exciting RP! Look at all the fun I had for threatening a man, I got to spend a night in jail, be whipped, and have to publicly serve men in the pavilion for 2 ahn. Most humbling and a bit humiliating experience for me I can assure you. Created some RP though! I'd love to see more people own their words and thoughts and think more about what they can do to advance RP and less about how they can think bad things at someone.

For my part, from now on, I'm treating thought emotes as though you (general you) spoke them aloud. After if, if it's a slave doing it, all your thoughts are supposed to be clearly read in your face anyway, so if you take the time to type out /me thinks that uppity physician is a bitch that smells like bosk... I'm going to assume you said it out loud and kick you for it I encourage everyone to do the same, and maybe we can get people to actually RP out those nasty thoughts somewhat

There are ways to impart bad thoughts without "thought emoting" and I'd love to see more people doing it. Curl your lip in a sneer as you look down your nose at someone.. clearly shows your distaste without the need for a thought emote. It can be done people, just need to think it through a bit

I am not in a habit of rocking applecarts.

However I want to react to the points raised here. Firstly I completly agree with Anya (except for the baths, ). Here is my suggestion reworded from the NC I dropped in the suggestion box a week ago, and ......may I lobby for someone to acknowledge receipt of these suggestions?

I thank the council for their work in my NC to them. I have but one issue: offering an avenue for people to have a say and hear from the HC is commendable, however; as I can not get there easily because of family duties (it is mid afternoon on a Saturday for me, and deep in the night for UK/EUROs), I want to avoid that people think I don't care to be there. The sim meetings is one thing. making a list of resolutions or a summary of the meeting available is essential to bridge the gap to all those who can't attend for whatever reason.

Laura doesn't have a major or essential problem, but is has a communication problem. Too much is handled OOC between groups of friends. All the stuff Ari was talking about in regards to Bila and how to RP with them, is lost to people who didn't attend the meeting. And that was all I could gather in the 10 minutes I was able to attend. Should we then ask friends that attend for their log? No! if it is worthwile to be raised, it is worthwile to be shared with others who cant attend. So please, if we do this by a minute taker and approved summary or go all out and make it the purpose of a Laura newsletter, I don't mind, I am not a scribe, but my heart is with making Laura as great as it can be.

Suggestion to High Coucil available for your inspection, just ask me.


Dren Bernard 􀀀

Dren Bernard wrote:

I am not in a habit of rocking applecarts.

However I want to react to the points raised here. Firstly I completly agree with Anya (except for the baths, ). Here is my suggestion reworded from the NC I dropped in the suggestion box a week ago, and ......may I lobby for someone to acknowledge receipt of these suggestions?

I thank the council for their work in my NC to them. I have but one issue: offering an avenue for people to have a say and hear from the HC is commendable, however; as I can not get there easily because of family duties (it is mid afternoon on a Saturday for me, and deep in the night for UK/EUROs), I want to avoid that people think I don't care to be there. The sim meetings is one thing. making a list of resolutions or a summary of the meeting available is essential to bridge the gap to all those who can't attend for whatever reason.

Laura doesn't have a major or essential problem, but is has a communication problem. Too much is handled OOC between groups of friends. All the stuff Ari was talking about in regards to Bila and how to RP with them, is lost to people who didn't attend the meeting. And that was all I could gather in the 10 minutes I was able to attend. Should we then ask friends that attend for their log? No! if it is worthwile to be raised, it is worthwile to be shared with others who cant attend. So please, if we do this by a minute taker and approved summary or go all out and make it the purpose of a Laura newsletter, I don't mind, I am not a scribe, but my heart is with making Laura as great as it can be.
Suggestion to High Coucil available for your inspection, just ask me.


Dren Bernard ��

Dren, we got your notes and they were passed around and discussed at Council, and I believe in the note Markos sent out yesterday, he stated that we are going to hold two city meetings on the days we do them, at different times so that the Euros get one as well. He sent out a notice citywide as a way to communicate more fully with everyone, exactly doing what you're suggesting here in summing up what was discussed in council meeting and the resolutions we are going forward with. If you are not getting the notices in the citizen's group. then we need to look into why that is.

Sage wrote:

Ice Bradley wrote:

Visable leaders

Let's see... On an almost daily basis I see Gavin, Ari, Elgin (just not weekends for him and lately he's even been in on friday nights), Orvelle is there all the time, myself of course, Jane is now on council and I see her in town to RP, and Markos when he can. Just what exactly are we if not the leaders of the city? Markos gets in when he can, his RL at this time is preventing as much time as he used to spend but with all due respect Ice, you weren't here when he was out and about in the city constantly putting in more hours than any of us to get it up and running. Most of the rest of us were, we saw that and know what his dedication level is.

I'm honestly confused what it is you want, you say you want visible leaders.. yet... here we all are in the city and RPing a large percentage of the time.

Why is this brought up a month after posted?

I even went to a couple of the leaders in the last few days and told them i was happy to see them more around in Euro times.

My bad, I missed Markos' summary, and thanks for pointing it out Sage.

I will look forward to a similar summary from Sim meetings.

/me looks at the cart; yes, all apples accounted for!

Ice Bradley wrote:

Sage wrote:

Ice Bradley wrote:

Visable leaders

Let's see... On an almost daily basis I see Gavin, Ari, Elgin (just not weekends for him and lately he's even been in on friday nights), Orvelle is there all the time, myself of course, Jane is now on council and I see her in town to RP, and Markos when he can. Just what exactly are we if not the leaders of the city? Markos gets in when he can, his RL at this time is preventing as much time as he used to spend but with all due respect Ice, you weren't here when he was out and about in the city constantly putting in more hours than any of us to get it up and running. Most of the rest of us were, we saw that and know what his dedication level is.

I'm honestly confused what it is you want, you say you want visible leaders.. yet... here we all are in the city and RPing a large percentage of the time.

Why is this brought up a month after posted?

I even went to a couple of the leaders in the last few days and told them i was happy to see them more around in Euro times.

My fault for not checking the date, someone said you'd posted, so I came to look.

I never ever questioned the level of dedication by any of the council, i know very well you all love Laura and will do what it is possible for you to do to make it a better place.

As for your direct comment about Markos, 2 days after the meeting and i saw him for the 3rd day in a row, i even went directly to him and told him it was great seing him around again, and we had a good laugh of him returning to be a bt more active and the first thing that happened was a mess. We agreed it was Lauras way of saying welcome back.

As for the meeting i know many hated my comments there, cause i was blunt of told what i saw. If i didnt want Laura to prosper i wouldnt have cared to bring them up. If i as some others said wanted to gain power for myself, i would probably have said yes to some of the offers ive had within the city. Sometimes it just takes that ass, to stand up and speak his mind.

And you know what it worked, ever since the meeting ive seen more HC members around in the city than for the 3 months i was here. And to me thats a succes, I know the burdens of running big cities well, ive done it several times in the past and know how tough it can be.

My main goal by standing up like i did was to wake a few people up, and get them to try and see things from a bit of another perspective, and from what i can see it happened, and im more than happy about that.

If the cost of that is a few people hating me in rp or holding ooc grudges against me for that, I honestly dont care. I try to focus my time on those i get along with.

The great thing about these meetings, and boards, is that it's good to sometimes 'vent' or get some things off our chest. Sure some might feel tense for a day or two, but then we all end up closer.

So... we can all have one big group hug now right?
Please? Just a little one?
I won't grab anyone I promise.

That's my "one change" more hugs please.

I'm sorry Linnett, but if you are not grabbing, what's the point <sigh>

I have no grudges against anyone, life is too short for that. A little more aware now and my eyes opened a bit, but that's a good thing

Ice Bradley wrote:

If the cost of that is a few people hating me in rp or holding ooc grudges against me for that, I honestly dont care. I try to focus my time on those i get along with.

I hold no ooc grudge against you, and as for IC, yes I now resent you. It has nothing to do with the ooc stuff though, I don't carry that stuff over. Sage has her own reason to resent you now, and you're not the only one and it's all RP. <shrug> take that or leave it as you will, I have no hard feelings ooc.

With all due respect lady Sage this is a board for suggestions and changes, an open forum for ideas and thoughts. I simply posted my Ideas.. they are not based in stone nor are they intended to be derogratory or rude.

If you do not agree with them that is fine, Yes I have been busy in other places and do not spend much time in Laura.. to have noticed all the changes, I never stated that I have. I have been busy kidnapping a bila leader and making trade with the other panther tribe just to spice things up etc.

Everyone is entitled to their opinions and have a right to post their suggestions or comments without getting flamed by yourself for doing so. I am sure it is unintentional on your part..

All I ask is that you sit down and post without taking your claws out when you read something that is not exactly your opinion.
I admire your fiery spirit but try to tone it down a notch, you do come across as rather insulting at times. Please stop treating everyone as some sort of insurgent against Laura.

You may wish to point out I am rather sarcastic myself and post some detailed list of my failings etc as you see them.. thatwould not surprise me, but I always listen to people's thoughts and give them the respect they are due as individuals.

Remember

I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
Evelyn Beatrice Hall

Lets all try to get along..

I don't see where I disagreed with you, merely pointed out that we had done exactly as requested, same as I pointed it out to Dren.

Sage wrote:

I don't see where I disagreed with you, merely pointed out that we had done exactly as requested, same as I pointed it out to Dren.

I agree, I don't understand where clearing something up with someone became an attack and 'claws bared'.. Sage said to you, Severus, and I quote.."Maybe you haven't noticed but we have meetings every two weeks for citizens to come and attend and voice their issues and opinions."

And, um, it's true. We do. We also, I might add, have more visible leaders... short of spending our entire 1st Life in Laura, we do more than adequate with that.. and will continue to do so. The city is made of everyone, not just the High Council, and I personally would like to see more of our sworn citizens in the city for RP, too. Many of you are there a lot, and you are noticed, appreciated, and important to us. There are, however, many who do not bother to come to the city, I want to change that.

Thank you everyone for your suggestions, please keep them coming and please read your city notices and come to the events we are working hard to set up for everyone so that all timezones may attend them (i.e. sword tournaments, induction ceremonies, OOC dances, low caste days, the list goes on and on). Those are being done FOR YOU, the citizens. We heard you and have responded so please attend when you are able to.

Thanks - Gavin

Anya Halderman wrote:

A minor thing, I love the new baths for the Free! Well done, and thank you. Although in the FW's side, could we possibly remove the third bath which can be clearly seen from the outside when the door swings open? It makes us nervous, and two pools are more than enough.

On a deeper note, I'd also really like to see an attitude change in the general population, toward those individuals who take considerable chunks of time out of their First Lives to log in, structure, plan, reassure, initiate, moderate and endure endless criticism and abuse on behalf of Laura.

No one is paying our High Council to invest the time and energy they do - Laura is free for all to enjoy - and I believe it's really just too easy to waltz on in, spend a week or two and then start throwing bold critique around. Or to look in from a distance, and offer advice without proper basis.

Of course, it speaks well of our city, that our citizens are so invested, emotionally, in it's success, but running an *anything*... be it in a First or Second Life, is difficult, time consuming and often thankless.

Thanks to our High Council, Laura still stands, some 6 months after it originally opened, and maintains an avatar dwell count of roughly 12,000. Not too shabby, and it certainly didn't happen because the High Council changed Laura's vision for every individual who wandered in thinking they knew better.

Members of the Council spend in excess of four hours every Monday, thrashing out the administration issues for the Sim. I don't really like to do much of *anything* for four hours at a time - even if I enjoy it - so I can only imagine how draining those meetings must be.

Then there is all the unseen, back office work which goes along with each High Council position, as every one of them is the Head of a Caste in Laura, charged with keeping things ticking along so that roleplay can actually happen. Someone has to write the Slave Info Packets (or arrange for them to be done). Classes for Slaves and Free have to be developed. There are Induction Speeches to write, the Laws have to be reviewed, notices have to be written and sent and forms need to be drafted, distributed, then processed. Relations with other Gorean role play Sims (Including our Panther neighbors) have to be developed and maintained. Someone has to run the market and deal with all of the Merchants and somebody has to oversee the residential Sim... It just goes on and on.

It seems rather petty then - to demand that on top of all of these things - they show up, shake everyone's hand In Character and make nice on a more regular basis, because that would make *us* feel a little more cossetted and confident. Most of the High Council are RP Moderators on top of everything else, and their "roleplay" often consists of wading through the inevitable questions sent about RP via IM, or the open calls of "Invalid" in open chat.

Given that no one's paying them, and no one's charging *us* a fee, it's rather generous of them to also give us a suggestion box, and a further few hours of their time every two weeks to meet us in an open, OOC forum to discuss our concerns as citizens, and hear our ideas for Laura's future.

There is no denying these people work HARD. And there's no way, they are ever going to please every citizen. How much more difficult must it be, then, when one or two players - who are NOT held in Laura by anything other than their own personal choice - strive to undermine things with ongoing rhetoric about how "not enough" is being done.

Keep bringing them your ideas... share your criticisms, respectfully. They have asked for them. But please remember, they owe you nothing.

If you feel, deeply enough, that you could do a much better job, then by all means, take yourself off, buy a Sim, set it up, and knock yourself out. Until then, try to work WITH the existing, dedicated High Council we have, to keep Laura open, and pleasant for everyone.



Oh, and PS: In case all that made you forget.. FW Baths!

Thank you Anya, your words mean a lot. We will continue doing everything we can for our citizens.