Too many Rules in Combat and RP?

How does one determine if there are way too much rules in Gor? When there is a certain balance between a game and a roleplay. Granted if Gor was more about RP with dice than cheap game physics combat then understanding that everything in combat must be typed. Getting on a boat, pulling up a raid ladder, leashin and using three ropes to tie a panther, but at the same time if this is indeed realtime combat unless one has a small notecard with differe rps pasted on it I dont think i could rp three capture lines of search, tying, removeing weapons, and leashing and unleashing to ones belt while being shoot at by two different panthers. The raid the other day was called invalid because there was no RP of the ladder so the whole raid was invalid.Does Gor have too many rules nowadays?

Are there too many rules in SL Gor? I don't think so, and I will tell you why.
The three line binding rules and similar ones were made to stop just the activity you described. Could you legitimately immobilize, search, and tie up someone while being shot at by two others? I don't see that as something that would even be attempted in a real world situation. To expose yourself for that time would be death.
As for the RPing of ladders and other siege equipment, well, lets just say some folks find it convenient to come up to an obstacle, and finding no other way around, say something like "Uh, oh yeah, we brought a ladder....". Did you? Show me.
The problem becomes that rules are made to stop what is essentially cheating, and the cheaters come up with new and better ways to cheat, which requires more rules.... I would personally like to make the only rule "It has to make sense from a reality perspective". Unfortunately, I will find people who will argue that levitating over the wall is fine, and here is the physics to prove it.
Our raid rules are restrictive, and there are two reasons for this. The first is to promote good RP, which is what this is supposed to be about. If you intend to assault a city like ours, you best bring a ladder or two. The second reason is to promote RP in the city itself. I know the guards like to shoot at things sometimes, and have something to guard against, but still the most common comment I get regarding Laura is: "Thank you for making a place where we don't get shot constantly and can actually RP".
Just my long-winded opinion. Someone else chime in.

Speed...

The ability to shoot arrows on the run causes the RP to be chopped to Veerrrryyyy short sentences in combat.

Tempers..

When people get mad they start to yell and scream, emotions take over and it can all go into the toilet in a flash.

My thoughts are that if these two things are in the back of everyones mind when taking that first step into the City we can improve things. We can't control the way visiting players act or react without the time it takes to make it happen, to bring the RP up to our standards.

I am a s_l_o_w typer and I know that drives some people nuts but hey, I am here to RP too and I will continue to plug along just as fast as I can go which sometimes leaves my comments 5-6 lines behind in the conversation, especially if there are several players involved but it's not going to stop me.

I would if it were in my power to make it so, slow everyone down just a bit, allow time for emotes and in the instance of flaring tempers, not be quick to respond to OOC. A cooler head will help move the RP along through the sticky parts

There is not arguing that is a roleplay gorean sim. Roleplay must be preserved with rules in order to keep a decent and realistic society in the sim. If this was just a roleplay then there would be no arguing with that what so ever. My curiousity is if there arent too much rules in RP/combat then is there enough still?

Mostly there are three types of roleplayers i have come across in Gor. Beginners/combat experts that use one lined RP in order to keep things short because they lack roleplay typing and speed or to avoid surprise attacks and in order to easily type out a capture or kill and run back into combat.

Another type are the medium-heavy typed out RPist that take their time to describe every detail in raiding and other tasks that they do. After someone is capped they have five minutes to roleplay the capture with time to spare.

last there are copy and paste roleplayers that have a notecard of different roleplays that are common to their scenario. If someone caps another gorean they just copy and paste three medium lines and quickly tie them up with still time to continue fighting and with little time to be vulnerable.

With that said including with raids, if this is indeed a roleplay more than it is a combat set game then why not have more rules restricting random attacks? even if a planned our raid where to happen wouldn't it be best for both sides of the RP if it were given five minutes ahead of time? IN a first person shooter he who strikes first wins but in a roleplay it would be very unrealistic for panthers to climb up the side of a hill and start shooting in the city.

Does anyone else think that there should be more of a limit on combat skill and more into roleplay?

For me, the problem isn't the rules or the amount of them, it's how folks make use of them and how they are interpreted.

In Second Life's Gor, more often than not, combat will end in an OOC dispute. This tends to make what should be a fun and thrilling scene merely something that is tedious and tiresome. Worse, some of these OOC disputes can be so heated that some folks get hurt or insulted by them, which is something that should be avoided in any aspect of a community, Second Life included. We're all here to have fun and enjoy the Gorean setting, from those that just want to fire a bow to those that want deeply meaningful roleplay. This should be the first thing that is considered before any encounter, combat or otherwise.

Because Second Life's Gor is largely a networked community, the rules are, for the most part, fairly similar, no matter what region you find yourself in. As Markos has said, most of these rules were made to curb the kind of abuses that spoil things or make them unrealistic. Since the rules have to cater for everyone, they have to address the widest concerns, and be as fair as possible within what the Gorean setting allows. The only issue is this similarity they have between regions. I'm quite sure some people will just assume that every region follows the roughly the same basic rules, and then get upset when they run foul of a small variance.

As a member of the Black Caste, who has to travel to a lot and kill people (often the hardest job), my first task when entering any Gorean region is to read the rules thoroughly, to get a "feel" of the place. I know I won't remember all of the rules there and then, but I can get a good impression of them, and their style. Is there a combat focus? Does roleplay seem to come first? Is an attempt to be authentic important? Take a moment to absorb the rules, and you'll have an answer to these simple questions.

I then re-read the rule sections that I'm really going to need. I will need to know what rules are in place for assassins and how combat and killings work. Can I wear a mask? How do I display the mark? Do I have to warn the target before I strike? How do I ensure my kill is confirmed? Where are the safe zones? Do those safe zones become unsafe when combat has started? What happens if I'm captured? What happens if I'm killed? Most important, are my weapons valid? For that one, I'm looking for vendors and specific weapons. Is Navar's entire catalog allowed, or are some of them banned, for example?

I also need to know if the tricks of my trade are going to work. Is there anything in my roleplay limits that will cause conflict in this new region? Am I going to run foul of the copy/paste tactic for chat, or has this been addressed in the rules? Can I build, and if so what's the auto-return set to?

Only when I'm sure of all this do I ever enter the region. Then I have to roll with the punches, and take the consequences of my actions. This is absolutely vital. If I'm captured, I have to give as good as I get. How you lose is just as important as how you win. If I'm to be killed, I have make sure I play up to that, and not whine about it. If I'm going to kill, I have to give my target a good send off, to make sure they die well.

Lastly, I have to think about this dreadful issue of whether something is valid or not. We've all been there. We all know it sucks. Having just spent hours in roleplay, the last thing we want is for the whole scene to be called invalid and be a complete waste of time. The most important thing to do here is to make sure you followed the rules, had the right motives, and were true to your role or caste. I'm a killer, so did I make the kill according to the region's rules? Did I have a contract? Did I play my caste correctly?

If there is a dispute, because someone else did something wrong, take it to IM first. Be civil and polite. Work it out there. Agree on a resolution. If you can't, switch the meter to OOC, hold the scene, and call in a moderator (if one isn't about, call the whole scene off and leave). At this point, focus just on the issue at hand, and get a ruling on it as fast as you can, so the mood isn't entirely wiped out. Once done there, either go back to IC and play it out, or if the whole thing is a bust, thank folks for their time and just leave.

All this might sound a lot. But, in practice, it really doesn't take all that long. Just read the rules, make sure what you have is OK, and think about the players as well as their characters. They want a good time just as much as you do. If they are genuinely just a waste of bandwidth, then don't play with them. It really is better for everyone.

Namelessart wrote:

Does anyone else think that there should be more of a limit on combat skill and more into roleplay?

Personally, no. Everyone has to roleplay a bit, everyone is going to be in a fight, sooner or later. Some will be experts in combat. Some will be amazing roleplayers. That's just the way it is. All you can do is find a region where your style of play is best represented. For me, Laura suits me well, as the focus is on being as close to the books as is possible in Second Life's Gor, roleplaying is favored more, and these themes have been promoted well enough to attract the kind of people that will support them. Like all regions, sometimes there will be off days and off players. But Laura is generally consistent. In the end, you pick the region. You get what you are given.

I agree the rules are there for a reason, a month back I was manning the walls when two panthers began shooting at me, I was struck down as I couldn't get my bow to fire...((seriously was not that funny at the time))
They could not climb the walls and kept falling off.
So they used a pose ball for the ladder to phase through the wall... Then tried tying me up while still holding their bows. I refused to be bound..
The rules are there for a reason....you climbed the walls...how?..

If the Pathers were of the Var Tribe I think we only need show a note card of the event to their leaders and I believe they will see that at least those two don't try that again.

no it was from the tribe that used to live in the northern woods..I believe one was Elinor..something
A well, they left in a huff ..

Ahhh, Elenor Later of the Tri Luna Panther Tribe most likely. I know she should know better but cannot say about who ever the other one was.

*looks around in my furry dresses and reads the rules, slapping them all over* i hate this!

*disguises as panther and sighs*
i think the rules are fine, covering up the important parts (very well written post by byron, thumbs up)
i see myself in the last part he wrote very much... hell i know i am easy prey if i am hunted. but i not believe people like me as panther cause i am easy to hunt, they like me because i know how to talk and maybe in an insulting way that sounds charming... i love the roleplay, i am here for fun, not shoot... if i want shoot things i place my battlefield2142-dvd in my drive and shoot things down with my mg -.-

but i sadly found those people who not like to follow rules and even ignore them only cause they want their damn limits respected...
IF i read a ruleset and not like the rules (lets say as example for me: panthers are autocapture if entereing the city - whole sim == city) i damn not enter that sim! or i take the risk (as in case of laura) running around in a disguise that might get me capped after a short fight... *shrugs* MY risk... and i took it once (thanks for the RP arthor!)

It's december 23 now and when scrolling through postings on the forum I see this message from you Sheena. I never saw it before (shame on me!) and then read your last few words. I guess that must have been when you, disguised as FW, were 'exploring' our admin building... it's a bit late to answer now, but I surely appreciate what you said there. (Thnx Sheena)

Arthor wrote:

It's december 23 now and when scrolling through postings on the forum I see this message from you Sheena. I never saw it before (shame on me!) and then read your last few words. I guess that must have been when you, disguised as FW, were 'exploring' our admin building... it's a bit late to answer now, but I surely appreciate what you said there. (Thnx Sheena)

ummm no... i not evne dare entering a city when wearing "outlaw"-clothes...
i will NOT wear FW-clothes *lifts chin in pride*

Sheena Thirroul wrote:

ummm no... i not evne dare entering a city when wearing "outlaw"-clothes...
i will NOT wear FW-clothes *lifts chin in pride*

Mhh, it also could have been that encounter on the Laura walls, me facing two panther girls after climbing the ladder. That was a nice RP too

Anyway "I Wish you a merry christmas and a happy 2009", or... in your own language :

"Frohe Weihnachten und ein glückliches neues Jahr!"

Arthor wrote:

Mhh, it also could have been that encounter on the Laura walls, me facing two panther girls after climbing the ladder. That was a nice RP too

Anyway "I Wish you a merry christmas and a happy 2009", or... in your own language :

"Frohe Weihnachten und ein glückliches neues Jahr!"

*grin* no it was outside the walls, between dock and entrance to the city
and merry christmas for you too